1959 Pontiac MSRP Window Sticker

Subject: 1959 Pontiac MSRP Window Sticker Sat Nov 20, 2010 2:28 am

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The window sticker is finally finished after 50+ hours of restoration. It was no easy task, let me tell you. The entire front and back have been restored to the original appearance. I consulted a few experts, who told me it is a pretty spot-on accurate representation of the Monroney Sticker adopted by Congress in 1958. I owe a debt of Gratitude to some of you, namely Brian (Centurion), John(Catbird) for supplying the actual vintage sticker to start with. I feel that with the input received and the time spent on restoring, it is not unfair to charge a nominal fee ($50.00) for a completed version of the MSRP. I can fill in the provided information, (i.e, VIN, options, dealer delivered, etc., etc...) I can verify codes from the trim tag (Any model available (2119, 2139, etc...trim codes 201, 206,) you get the idea. I managed to 'copy' the type set from the original tele-type machines used by GM until the late 1970's. Again, no easy task. This is what I started with and the end result.....Let me know what you think. Chad

This is what was sent by Brian




It is smaller than the original, but this is for dexterity purposes only, it does fill the page when I print them.




The finished product! To prevent 'borrowing' I have inserted 'SAMPLE' on the image. This is for my protection. All I ask for is respect for my hard work. Thanks, Chad

As you can see, I had alot of fun re-creating the scroll work around the outside. I only had the one top corner to work with, not to mention the missing left side and bottom right corner! I know it's not 100% exact, but it's hardly noticable, with the right number of points and crowns all the way around.


.

Here is the back.

Before:





After:


url=https://servimg.com/view/15282198/43][/url]



UPDATE: Here is a lightened version (without the mispelling, of course!) I'm still working on it!!





There is a white border around the outside of this side and for obvious reasons, you cannot see it here. The front and back were twisted and distorted from what I assume is the removal process stated on the back. This probably owes to the reason there are not many survivors!! Keep in mind I am still working on the back side, so it does not look exactly like what will be available. Some spacing and fonts are being reworked. I'll keep you posted.

Chad.....Absolutely great work! The only suggestion I would make, is that the background of the back side seems to be a shade or two too dark. Other than that I think you have nailed it. I'm totally confused though. How is it that Brian's sticker is the same one that I made the copy of from E-bay? Was he the one that purchased it from there? If so, what a coincidence!
How many lines of print for accessories do you think will be available on a single sticker? The reason I'm asking is that my car has every option and accessory that was offered for 1959, except air conditioning and Air/Ride suspension.
The documented history of most of our cars (mine included), is long gone. Regarding the dealer information, I guess we could either make one up, or pick a geographicly lodgical one from the available internet lists. If you need any help with the sales codes, wording, and prices, let me know. I have the complete Confidential Dealer Price Lists for October, 1958 and April, 1959, which would include both early and late prices.
This whole project is exciting. I firmly believed that this stuff was lost to history. Being the first year for the mandatory sticker, most people just scraped them off and threw the scraps into the trash. Of coarse you would normally leave it on for the perfunctory two weeks, so the neighbors would know that you had a new car......John

P.S. You have a PM

John- Thanks for the very kind words. The gratification of the challenge was the best part! Not sure about the ebay origin of the sticker, but what a coinicidence indeed! The copy I received was (from Brian) was full size as you see above. From what I understand about the options is that there was enough space for all options and accessories. For instance some items were grouped together in 'packages' with one price. Items that were standard on say, a Bonneville, were optional on other models, like a Star Chief or Catalina. An old timer here in Oregon who sold Pontiacs in the 1950's and 60's, told me some options and dealer installed accessories that were considered standard on some models and options on others, may or may not have been listed on the window sticker. He also told me the stickers were not always attached to the window, but in the glove compartment and the dealer would put it in a typewriter and sweeten it with add-ons , often with 'no-charge' tacked on as a customer "feel good" charge!! I feel since we are limited on hardcore research from places like PHS or GM Heritage, it's pretty much fair game as far as 'true historical' provenance goes for '59 and older Pontiacs. Now for the color issue..I got it as close as I could, and I am tweaking it as we speak. I have gone through 4 color and 2 black ink cartridges on this project. When the image is on my screen it is 3 or 4 shades lighter (with the LCD backlight) than when it is printed. I must have made 150+ copies before I was "satisfied" with what I had done, but it still needs work, of course. There is a misspelling on the back on purpose, see if you can find it....the winner gets a wedgie! I did that to prove I made these from scratch. There isn't one on the front, but the custom scroll work speaks for itself. Having access to the sales codes, wording and prices would be greatly appreciated. What a great offer! I'm not sure what will happen if GM gets wind of my 'creation', but I have contacted GM Heritage about the rights to sell them, just in case. Legalities, legalities.... Again, Thanks for the kind words..I still have work to do.

Chad, it looks great -- and you're well on your way!

John, a friend of mine won the window sticker that was listed on Ebay. He provided higher quality scans for Chad to work with.

Ideally, we'll see some additional, original examples turn up over time. An original Star Chief or Bonneville sticker would provide some indication of how the stickers might have listed the standard equipment for an upper series cars, including items that were optional on the Catalina.

Regarding the original selling dealership and location, I would personally opt to leave the information blank if it is not known. However, if you select a particular dealership and later research shows that a different dealer sold the car, the sticker could be re-printed with the corrected information. I recommend that Chad maintain a digital copy of each sticker he prepares, allowing him to re-access the sticker information for updates or replacements.

Thanks Guys! I have all 50 versions of the front and back stored on a 200G hard drive. Keeping each and every sticker produced is not a problem at all. I am in the process of setting the sticker up as a template so entering information is as easy as hittng the tab and enter keys. Ahh..codes and command prompts...so much fun! Anyway, I just posted a lightened version of the back. I'm not certain if I will ever get it exactly 100%, but I will try....and try again! What else am I going to do..it's 24 Degrees outside and snowing! Yippee! I agree with Brian on the dealership issue, either leave it blank or pick on e geographically and I would change it later...no charge... By the way, I will include 4 copies in the charge for the inital sticker front and back (F&B).Copies would be as follows: 1 for records (F&B), 1 for laminating (F&B), 1 each of the front and back for display, if desired. Thanks to all for the input and props...It has made this effort well worth it. Chad

Brian.....I think that listing the standard features for a particular model is a relatively recent practice; probably from the early 80's. The sticker for my 1967 Firebird doesn't have it. As Chad mentioned there were several option and accessory packages that were available. One can be seen (DECOR GROUP) on the sample that you provided. The thing that makes these complicated is that there were 5 different prices for this depending on which body style of Catalina you had, and all of them could be ordered seperately except the CUSTOM TRIM MOULDINGS. Another example would be the SG SAFETY GROUP which consisted of windshield washers, Safeguard speedometer, and instrument panel pad. The MSRP for this was $43.98 for Catalina and Starchief, and $24.63 for the Bonneville, because the padded dash was standard on the Bonneville. Any or all of these could also be ordered individually but the prices still totaled out to be the same as above. There didn't seem to be any special discounts for package deals.
Looking at your sample, the CIRC-L-HEATER & DEFROSTER, WONDER TOUCH RADIO, FULL-FLO OIL FILTER, CUSTOM LATEX FOAM SEAT, BACK-UP LAMPS, and HEAVY DUTY AIR CLEANER could have been ordered as BA BASIC GROUP. Strange that this car didn't have back-up lamps, since it was nicely equiped otherwise. Kind of odd that in all these years I've seen several 1959's with poverty hubcaps, a few without back-up lamps, only one without the deluxe steering wheel, but I have never seen one with the standard oil-bath air cleaner or no oil filter.
I've been contemplating the dealer issue. It would be nice to use one close to home. I know of four in my area (about 15 miles northeast of Philadelphia) who have been out of business for many years, one of which was an old classmate of my parents, from whom they and I both used to buy our Pontiacs. I'd like to use that one, but unfortunately a Kansas City assembled car wouldn't normally be found here. Especially since I'm about midway between the Linden, N.J. and Wilmington, Del. plants. Looks like a closed up dealer from somewhere in the Midwest would be realistic. I got the car from a gentleman in Williams, Iowa about 10 years ago. Man, I'm just a virtual cesspool of useless knowledge.....John

John- This is the kind of information I find very intriguing! I wouldn't consider it being a cesspool of worthless information. I liken it to purging "extra" info, it just makes room for more. I'm not sure how GM did shipping of its models in the 1950's, but today they come from everywhere . For instance, When I bought my 2009 GMC Seirra at Weston Pontiac here in Gresham oregon, they had 3 or 4 of the very same identical truck; color, options, accessories, etc...and they were all from different plants and countries. USA, Canada and Mexico! My truck was built in Mexico....I know, I know..don't even...!! My question is; how do we know for certain that GM didn't ship a car from Kansas to Philly or Southgate, Ca to Nebraska? It's just a theory, but it could have been a supply issue...My car was built in Fairfax, KS and shipped to Portland, Or. Why not from Southgate? Perhaps each plant was building certain cars because of how they were equipped?? Dealers did swap cars, I don't know how far away they would do that, though. At this point anything is possible. Just my 2 cents. The price structures are what interests me as well. I would like to learn more.....Chad

John, we have a number of original 1959 Buick window stickers, and examples from the upper series cars do (sometimes, depending upon assembly plant) list items that were included as standard equipment. The list of standard items for a top-of-the-line 1959 Electra 225 includes items that were extra-cost options on the lower-cost series cars. See below. The question is whether Pontiac did something similar on the window stickers of its upper series cars.



Chad, my '59 Buick was delivered new in Oregon state, and it was also sourced from the Kansas City (Fairfax) assembly plant. However, I have a list of all '59 Buicks delivered by the original selling dealership, and, during the latter part of the model year, some of the cars were being sourced from Southgate rather than Fairfax. During the years that followed, most of the cars delivered in the Pacific Northwest were, in fact, assembled in Southgate.

Guys.....That Buick sticker presents some interesting observations and questions. The first thing that comes to mind is why turn signals are listed for the Electra duce and a quarter. Does that mean that maybe an Invicta or LeSaber didn't come standard with them? More importantly, what should we do about the destination charge? That Buick had to be shipped a couple hundred miles at a price of $114. The Pontiac went across town for a charge of $16.30.
At this point, it's unclear whether Pontiac listed the features of the upscale cars on the sticker. Until we find a Bonneville or Starchief sticker we won't know. It wouldn't be difficult to do this though. What makes a Bonneville a Bonneville other than the extra 2" of wheelbase, 7"of overall length, and upgraded material of the seats and side panels is;
All the items listed in the DECOR GROUP from our sample
Instrument panel pad
Under dash courtesy lamps
Electric clock
Assist bar on passenger side of dash
Two speed windshield wipers
300 hp 4bbl engine when a Hydra-Matic was ordered, or 260 hp 4bbl with a manual transmission

The Starchief was the same as the Bonneville less the padded dash, clock, and courtesy lamps. The engines were the same as Catalina's; 245 hp 2bbl manual, and 280 hp 2bbl with Hydra-Matic. The assist bar, I'm not sure about.....ask Robert.....John

Chad.....I'm working on the price structure thing. As I mentioned, I have the MSRP and dealer net sheets for both October 1958 and April 1959. I also have the dealer album which spells out the various equipment availability, and a small "pocket" type salesman booklet with the prices. I'm trying to figure the best way to provide you and/or the people who may want a sticker with the information needed. The variations on a car by car basis could drive you nuts. Just for example, someone with a Catalina wants their sticker to include windshield washers. You now have to know if the car has 1 or 2 speed wipers as the price is different. There were two ways that you could get a passenger side ashtray for a Catalina. If you ordered the decor group or if you ordered the cigar lighter and ashtray lamp option. The price was less for the latter option for a Catalina with decor group and Bonnevilles and Starchiefs because the ashtray was already there. See what I mean.....John

John-I see what what you mean how it can get confusing! It's pretty amazing what they accomplished with the punch card style computer system of the day. I think once we can get it standardized, duplicating just about any option, accessory and trim combination available. I look forward to the challenge of deciphering the different models and what they were equipped with. Learning new things is always fun, and boy have I learned alot on this project and these wonderful cars. What I've learned the most is when people band together, great things are accomplished! This is the definitiion of teamwork! I could not be more proud how it has progress with everyone pitching in some way or another. I'm excited, to say the least! Happy Thanksgiving everyone! My plan for today is to cook dinner, eat, nap, eat some more, perhaps nap a little more and of course there is pie...lots of pie! Gobble, Gobble, Gentleman.

opps, made a mistake on the standard equipment for higher end models. I forgot that both Bonnevilles and Starchiefs came with the Daytona Weave (silver thread) carpet. Catalinas had the combination rubber mats on the floors, and 80/20 loop carpeting only on the transmission and drive shaft tunnel. Not 100 percent sure about no clock in the Starchief either. All my publications list the clock as a Catalina only accessory. We need to "ASK THE MAN WHO OWNS ONE" To borrow a phrase from Packard......John

Got the standard equipment straightened out. Starchiefs had all the same equipment as Bonnevilles except the padded dash, assist bar, and courtesy lamps.

Chad.....Maybe I'm overthinking this whole thing, but how do you plan to handle the logistics of gathering the information for these stickers? I'm sure that anyone who wants one, wants it to be an accurate representation of their car. I know that if you can do what you've already done, it shouldn't be a problem to you. I do, however, see a problem with the possible back and forth communication needed to get it right. I'm going to send you the information you need, but I'm wondering if it might be easier on you, if I post it all here, and let the purchaser tell you what to put on the sticker. That way, they would be responsible for the content. What do you think?.....John

P.S. PM me with your address again. I deleted it from last time.

John- There is no such thing as overthinking, I do it while eating breakfast! As far as the logistics of accuracy goes, I think it will work out either way. Posting the information here is not a bad idea at all. This would give everyone a chance to see just how much their car is stock or had things added later. Like I mentioned before, if there turns out to be a descrepancy, on mine or their part, I can make any adjustments to the sticker on a case by case basis. I am willing to work with anyone, if such problems occur. The hard part is that I keep 'tweaking' details on the sticker, so now I have 'officially' declared it finished! Pm on the way with the address.....Chad

Chad.....I'll get that stuff out to you in a day or two. I'll also begin posting it in the "Information Thread." Glad you got it done. Us pre-1961 guys deserve to have the neat things that PHS can't or won't provide, even if we have to prevaricate it. Thanks again for all your hard work and artistic talent......John

John- Sounds great! I look forward to seeing what comes my way. Yes, the '59 'er's certainly need the fun stuff that everyone else can get. I am working with a friend who makes signs and stickers, hoping to replicate some of the stickers for the Pontiac's that are not available. The one I have not been able to find is the one on top of the fan shroud in the shape of the arrow. Thanks for the compliments, it is what has made this rewarding. Chad

Chad.....Someone already makes that. It's a white strip 8 1/4" long by 1 3/4" wide. The printing is red. I think Ames has it. Check their catalog......John

Ahh..Ames, I should have known. I'll have to find my Ames Engineering catalog somewhere in the chaos. I decided to move my computer and its entourage to another room. I have instructed my Wife, that if I ever come up with a stupid idea like that again to hit me on the head with one of my books. She won't, but at least there is the possibility she might just for fun!

John and Chad,
Great job on this detailed project. From my orig invoice, all Catalina options/prices are correct except for LM group. My car has all , but no ash tray lamps? Jim

Jim.....Sounds like we may have an exception to our information. Could you post up a copy of your original invoice? Maybe we can figure out what the differences are.

Chad.....The other night I Googled "1959 window stickers." I found a Cheverolet one and another Buick one. This time for a Invicta. What really threw me, was finding page 2 of our thread out there for all to see. I wonder how that happened?.....John

Google works by cache-ing. A cached page is a screen capture taken every so often, say every 5 minutes, in case the server or website experiences a malfunction or failure. Keywords are major factor as to how this made it to the "mainstream" when you google, say '1959 window sticker'. EVERYTHING is stored on the internet, it is virtually impossibel to erase every trace of anything posted or written on the internet. This is why there is such a high concern regarding Wikileaks. Even if the site was shutdown permanently, cached pages can still be posted by his "followers" for years and still never run out of material! In some roundabout ways, we can thank that wonderful nerd Bill Gates for this!

John
Here pics of my invoice(option coded) and the decoded options.
Jim

Jim- That is excellent! You are fortunate to have such valuable and historical documentation. Not everyone kept such paperwork pertaining to their cars, or if they did, it was usually mis-placed and not found after the original owner passed away or the car was just handed down over the years. My Brother remembers getting a manila envelope from my Aunt when he inherited the car, but him being in High School at the time, probably just tossed them thinking "what do I need with these old service records and invoice?"!! My Aunt Jan recently told me she thinks the the window sticker and invoice from the dealer was in that envelope along with all the service records for Grandpa Jig's Pontiac. He seemed to keep everything and maintained the car in almost immaculate condition mechanically, I don't doubt everything was there. Like your invoice states, "Paid in full", My Great-Grandpa also paid in cash for his as well. He refused to allow the dealer to "swindle" him into financing the car. He paid cash for everything, I was told he had no credit cards in his possession when he died, just a shoebox in the closet with $20,000+ stuffed inside! Unfortunately, I was not the lucky one to stumble upon that box!!!