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 Sorry it's not a '59

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marks73turboTA

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PostSubject: Sorry it's not a '59   Sat Mar 13, 2010 12:54 am

Well guys I finally found and got my new car home. 1963 CAtalina. Air car too. I spent yesterday and today cleaning all the crap out of the car. Stripped out the interior and the floor is completely rust free, The door panels are shot but I can use them for patterns. Basically everything needs replaced. Been thinking of a 2000 to 2006 SSEi interior for cruising. I own a 2002 SSEi so I can use it for mock up. Would look cool in leather if done right. Here are the pics.

http://illiweb.com/fa/pbucket.gif

I bought a '60 389 block from Robert and it will be the base for a twin (maybe single) turbo build. I bought a nice used set of KRE 325 cfm alum. heads form Troy Tribby, they were used on the '60 Arapaho race car. The 389 will be punched out to 407 with my Ross forged/dished turbo pistons. I've talked to a gentleman that has a Velasco forged 3.75 crank I believe made for a Ram Air 5 originally and will need to get some good rods. The crank is lightened, the rods I get will be light weight and the Ross pistons are light weight pistons. This thing should just jump. The heads are completely set up for a roller cam so I will be going to one also. It will be a mild duration but fast high lift. Still have to get that sorted out. The heads and pistons should come to about 8 to 1, maybe 8.3 to 1. Should be good for a lot of boost. Still deciding on an induction system. I want to go EFI but I may fall back to a blow thru again. I want it to drive a lot so I need good street manners, and the EFI is good for that. But the blow thru usually has an edge on power. I'm planning ona built 4L80 Over drive but I would really like a manual 5 or better yet 6 speed. Just that for the strip the auto is much better. But the 6 speed would be much more fun on the street.
Still deciding on the way I will build the look of the car. Still like the gasser thing but I don't think the '63 lends itself well to that look. Maybe standard ride height but tubbed rear with my narrowed 9 inch a big meats. I still have that 4 link back half to to use. Looking under the car it looks like it would be real easy to put it in. Well that's it for now. Talk to ya later and thank you again Robert for your help with that block. I'll make ya proud. But just remember, you can't have it back, heh! Mark L
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PostSubject: Re: Sorry it's not a '59   Sat Mar 13, 2010 1:52 am

marks73turboTA wrote:
Well guys I finally found and got my new car home. 1963 CAtalina. Air car too. I spent yesterday and today cleaning all the crap out of the car. Stripped out the interior and the floor is completely rust free, The door panels are shot but I can use them for patterns. Basically everything needs replaced. Been thinking of a 2000 to 2006 SSEi interior for cruising. I own a 2002 SSEi so I can use it for mock up. Would look cool in leather if done right. Here are the pics.

I wanna wire it if you do that...Very Happy Nice ride!
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PostSubject: Re: Sorry it's not a '59   Sat Mar 13, 2010 3:22 am

Damn, I love those '63s! Looks like mine did...just cleaner. Sure is solid

Damn 325 CFM!? That's bad ass, Mine only flowed 248 and I thought that was good!

Mark, I meant to tell you, that motor was pretty damn clean and had definitely been rebuild before. After I cleaned up one of the pistons I saw "040" along with what looked like a part number or something. I assume it's been bored 40 over. I hope this isn't a big deal. Also, I dropped that motor off at my parents office today but I had to run to San Antonio to get Christians damn pump from the post office so I don't know if they picked it up today or what.

You could use a TKO600 5 speed which would work with a stock 58-60 3 speed bellhousing. A T56 uses a different bolt pattern and I don't think anyone makes a bellhousing for an early Pontiac. But yeah an Auto would probably be quicker but there's nothing like bangin through gears in an old car

Don't ditch the Pontiac rear! it's the same as a Ford 9" anyway...just cooler and more expensive to build. If you do go with a 9" I'll take your Pontiac rear end. It should be at least a 3.23. Let me know if you want to sell it

That motor has been sitting in my garage taking up space for like 4 years. haha I'm glad you have a use for it.

Keep us updated

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PostSubject: Re: Sorry it's not a '59   Sat Mar 13, 2010 11:27 am

Not a problem Robert. I'll go .060 over as a minimum and if I continue with the pistons I have, I have to go .090. These blocks can take .120 easy. My son Matt said he called and got your phone message and he said he laughed so hard that he had to hang up first because he knew he wouldn't be able to talk if you answered. I used to have my say " Hey, you've reached Mark leischer, if you owe me money I'll asnwer right away, if I owe you then it may take a while. I used to get a lot laughs from that.
I do have a bell housing and it would really simplify the build but I would need to go to a blowproof since I will be taking it to the strip and I just feel safer with a clutch, higher RPM potential and a lot of power. If this tanker hooks, and with all that weight in the back overhang I don't see it not hooking, clutches and transmissions are going to take a beating. Also I was not known for my powershifting when I had all my faculties let alone now. I do have an idea to build a powershift clutch rod or hydraulic throw out bearing that could trip off of the shifter. If I could perfect that it would be a life saver and make the manual much more consistent on the strip. If iuse a linkeage I would replace the rod from the Z-bar to the clutch fork with a instant acting servo/solenoid that could act and retract instantly. It would be hooked up to switches mounted on the shifter. As soon as the shifter was moved it would activate the switch which would shoot out the soleniod or what ever worked disengaging the clutch until the shifter hits the next gear where it would hit the next switch closing the solenoid. A straightline shifter and two switches will be easy. The solenoid is the hard part, finding one strong enough and the right travel length. The same could be used with a hydraulic throw out bearing using siome kind of hydraulic actuator to do the same thing in line between the master and the bearing. Then switch off the activator (solenoid or whatever) and use the regular system manually for everyday use. Maybe then I could powershift like the pros. Sorry for the long reply. Got me going there. I've had this idea for along time but been running all automatics for so long that I never got a chance to develope anything seriously. This may be my chance. I'll want to move the engine back and make a new firewall so it may cause problems making a manual clutch system and force me into a hydraulic. OR, just go back to a manual automatic. I really want a stick for the street though.
I'm seriously considering using the rear end but it woulld have to be narrowed. I have to look into what's out there for posi units or if I'd be comfortable with a spool. It would be great to use the original rear end for the build. The 9 inch is alread narrowed, I have a 31 spline detroit locker for it but I'm worried that the 31 axles may not be strong enough for this thing. Depends on how light I can get it down to. OK I'm gone.

Have you ever removed the stainless trim around the roof to base before? Any special technique? Last thing I want to do is hurt it. All the shiny stuff is in really nice shape. Mark L
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PostSubject: Re: Sorry it's not a '59   Sat Mar 13, 2010 2:42 pm

hahah I guess you mean the creepy obnoxious "YOU'VE CALLED ROOOBERRRT" hahah that's my brother, he's a nut

Solenoids huh? That's interesting. I've never heard of that

How fast do you plan on going with this? The SD cars ran 11s and Troys 60 ran 10s both on the original pontiac rears. I heard that the 60 was run with the old school Ansen spider lockers in an original open rear.

The only roof stainless I removed was on my first 62 cat...it was rusted out and fell off. haha I don't think you'll have that problem

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PostSubject: Re: Sorry it's not a '59   Sat Mar 13, 2010 3:42 pm

Oh yeah Mark, just to tease you a little, I know a guy who has a 4 bolt main 420A '59 389 for sale...

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PostSubject: Re: Sorry it's not a '59   Sat Mar 13, 2010 5:57 pm

NNNNNNOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!. Been looking for one for a along time but I assume it won't be cheap to get from him? Just for shnits and giggles, do you know what he is aking? I did get the stainless trim off. I have a removal tool that worked great on myTA trim. But this trim has a different style clip. I was able to pop the trim using the tool I have but it did scratch the paint. But I'm cleaning that area up anyway so no big deal.
I'm a terrible horsepower junkie. I'm still planning on running in the 9's.The budget will determine how close I get to that. I want that 9 sec time slip. Mark L
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PostSubject: Re: Sorry it's not a '59   Sat Mar 13, 2010 7:19 pm

He wanted $1500 for it. says he just has the block and caps. We made a deal on the car and the block but I told him I'm not paying for the block until I see it and he said ok. Hopefully it is what he says it is and he'll honor the deal we made.

It's going to take a lot to get that big old 63 in the 9s. It weighs a lot more than your TA haha You can do it with Turbos though

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PostSubject: Re: Sorry it's not a '59   Sun Mar 14, 2010 1:55 am

Yeah but the darn things so long. As soon as I come off the line I'll be at the end of the strip. I should be able to do that in 9 seconds hey??? LOL. Mark L
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PostSubject: Re: Sorry it's not a '59   Sun Mar 14, 2010 5:28 am

It's plenty possible. It's just going to take some boost...or a lot of boost haha

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PostSubject: Re: Sorry it's not a '59   Sun Mar 14, 2010 10:59 am

nice car, and clean!! Looks like it will be an interesting ride, so keep us posted with lots of pics!!
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PostSubject: Re: Sorry it's not a '59   Mon Mar 15, 2010 2:11 am

Thanks Robert but I'm going to stick with your block. Should handle what I'm going to give it. Mark L
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PostSubject: Re: Sorry it's not a '59   Mon Mar 15, 2010 2:27 am

59/60 blocks should be able to handle whatever you can throw at them

Are you going to machine it for 4 bolt mains?

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PostSubject: Re: Sorry it's not a '59   Mon Mar 15, 2010 10:39 am

Not sure yet. I'm going with Paul Carter down in Tucson to do the engine machining and he thinks it will be fine with studded 2 bolts. My 455 also only had studded 2 bolts and it made over a 1000 hp but under 6000. This is a better/thicker block, better metalurgy, much shorter stroke and 3 inch mains vs 3.25. I think I'll be OK. Not sure if he fully understands my plan yet. Really haven't talked to him about it unless he's seen my posts. I have to give it serious thought though. I know it can't hurt other than the pocket book. MArk L
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PostSubject: Re: Sorry it's not a '59   Mon Mar 15, 2010 1:52 pm

Damn, rub that in some small block chevy guys face. 1000+ HP and 2 bolt mains haha

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PostSubject: Re: Sorry it's not a '59   Mon Mar 15, 2010 4:20 pm

Damn that is going to be one hefty build...

I doubt that you are going to find a solenoid that can handle those forces and have sufficient stroke - i would surgest an aircylinder with solenoid valves - it would make it easy to control the rate of engaging by using a needle valve.

I have seen systems (from the factory) (NSU RO80 Wankel - very rare). A guy that comes to the local carshows has one, and the clutch is operated by vacuum (a big membrane - looks like a powerbrake booster). It is operated by solonoid valve, and the gear knop tilts when operated, and closes a circuit to the solonoid, disengaging the clutch. When you let go of th gear knob the clutch automatically reengages, and the rate can be set via a needle valve.

I have a feeling that vacuum is not going to be available in this application (maybe boost Wink, but a small compressor and a small composite air tank should do the trick.
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PostSubject: Re: Sorry it's not a '59   Mon Mar 15, 2010 4:36 pm

IDK, I think with a few week of left leg work outs you can get that left leg clutching faster than any solenoid or air valve...

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PostSubject: Re: Sorry it's not a '59   Mon Mar 15, 2010 9:17 pm

In all honesty. I've had permanent nerve damage due to collapsed discs. I've had back damage since 1973 but lived with it and thru it all my life until 2003. That time when it went out it finally did it big time. I lost almost all locking of my left knee and the upper quad (top of the thigh) went totally numb. I had a hard time just walking because I had to work to lock my knee. Because I always worked through the pain whenever it would go out I just kept going. Anywho. I never regained full muscle in my left upper quad so my leg does not respond to fast movement. Just after we got our dog I was playing with her outside. I threw the ball and she headed for the house with it. Just playing around I took off to beat her to the door and my leg just didn't move. I made three hops and went flying on my face. So true powershifting is out for me. I shift fast just not powershift. If I could get a clutchless trans where I just pull the gears, it would work but then I'm not sure how happy they are on the street. And I want a OD so I can cruise and take trips. I'm thinking I just should settle for a 4L80 manual valve body auto. It would probably be more affordable in the long run and be more turbo happy. But I always had that design sitting on the shelf in my head. Always wanted to try to build something like that to try. Mybe someday. MArk L
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PostSubject: Re: Sorry it's not a '59   Tue Mar 16, 2010 1:34 am

Ah sorry to hear that Mark

manual valve body 4l80 would work nicely

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PostSubject: Re: Sorry it's not a '59   Fri Mar 19, 2010 2:01 am

Mark, do you know if they picked up that motor today. I called you son yesterday and told him the damn motor was still sitting in front of the office. I'm glad no one stole it. He said they were for sure coming today and that they would call but they never called. I don't know how your brother can deal with Fed Ex or whoever he is going through because this would piss me off. I'm glad I didn't wait around for them all day today and friday because they never would have came!

I'll call your brother again tomorrow and see what happened now

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PostSubject: Re: Sorry it's not a '59   Fri Mar 19, 2010 4:34 pm

Hey Robert. That ain't good. I'll call him and see what's up. Sorry that it was sitting ther so long. MArk L
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PostSubject: Re: Sorry it's not a '59   Fri Mar 19, 2010 8:54 pm

It doesn't bother me I just don't want it to get stolen

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