Pontiac-59.com

Welcome
 
HomeHome  PortalPortal  GalleryGallery  FAQFAQ  SearchSearch  MemberlistMemberlist  UsergroupsUsergroups  RegisterRegister  Log in  

Share | 
 

 Voltage regulator

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
AuthorMessage
Old Gold

avatar

Posts : 78
Join date : 2012-03-11
Age : 41
Location : Jekyll Island GA

PostSubject: Voltage regulator   Sat Jul 07, 2012 10:07 pm

if key is out of ignition and the center lug on the regulator (blue wire going to generator) still has 12 volts on it does that mean regulator is bad?? that blue wire got so hot it smoked and began melting at the regulator and at the generator
Back to top Go down
View user profile
CATBIRD



Posts : 304
Join date : 2008-07-03
Age : 73
Location : Levittown, Pa

PostSubject: Re: Voltage regulator   Wed Jul 11, 2012 10:18 pm

Old Gold.....the blue wire should not have power with the ignition off. That wire sends power to the field coils of the generator to create the magnetic field through which the armature spins to generate electricity. The blue wire should be attached to the "FIELD" terminal of the regulator. It sounds as if you have it connected to the "GENERATOR" terminal, which is normally the center terminal of the regulator. Looking at the regulator from the side that the terminals are on, it should be from left to right, or top to bottom as it's mounted on the wheel well:

"B"-heavy red wire-always hot as it's connected to the battery through the harness and bypasses the ignition switch

"G"-heavy brown wire-hot when generator is spinning and making power

"F"-small blue wire-hot only when generator needs to create power because of drain on battery

By "hot" I mean 12V power, not overheated. If you have an aftermarket regulator, the positions of the terminals may be different, but the wire colors should still go to the "B G and F" terminals as I described above.

Make sure that all the wires are attached correctly and see what happens. You may have destroyed the regulator and/or the generator if the wires were hooked up wrong......John

P.S. I post information and replies on this forum to try to help fellow 1959 owners with their projects. I, and most other readers, would appreciate responses as to whether they were helpful or not.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Old Gold

avatar

Posts : 78
Join date : 2012-03-11
Age : 41
Location : Jekyll Island GA

PostSubject: Re: Voltage regulator   Thu Jul 12, 2012 6:15 pm

Catbird thanks for the response it will be very helpful, I took photos of the generator and the regulator, and i put back everthing after the refresh just the way my pictures showed. which leads me to the only conclusion that someone in the past had the wiring wrong? this is how mine was wired:

big brown wire on generator was on the terminal closest to the motor, there is an (F) stamped in the cast below that terminal.

blue wire was on other terminal

purple wire appeared grounded below that small cylinder thing with a black wire going to the blue wires terminal.



on the regulator it was wired like this:

top or furthest from motor was red wire

middle was blue wire
bottom was big brown wire.

now keep in mind this car has been in my dads posistion for the last 10 years and the wiring has been that way since i got the car>>>>i have driven it plenty with the wiring like that.


yesterday I ordered a new regulator from ames....I rebuilt the generator a few weeks back, it was absolutly caked with grease and whatever else inside it all around the brushes and springs.

I have 1 question: maybe just maybe when i rebuilt the gereratorI put the wrong terminal in the wrong hole of the cast. I have the (F) terminal connected to the wire going directly to the magnets inside generator its a (blue wire) the other terminal if i can remember runs to the brushes.

is that right
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Old Gold

avatar

Posts : 78
Join date : 2012-03-11
Age : 41
Location : Jekyll Island GA

PostSubject: Re: Voltage regulator   Thu Jul 12, 2012 7:29 pm

sorry its a grey wire that appears grounded under the cylinder (capacitor) on the generator not a purple like said above
Back to top Go down
View user profile
CATBIRD



Posts : 304
Join date : 2008-07-03
Age : 73
Location : Levittown, Pa

PostSubject: Re: Voltage regulator   Thu Jul 12, 2012 10:44 pm

Old Gold.....that explains why the blue wire was getting hot. The blue wire was only meant to carry a small current to the field "F" coils of the generator to create the magnetic field. That's why it is only a thin wire. If you look at the generator the other terminal should be stamped "A" for armature. It is connected to the armature by way of the brushes and the commutator. This is where the heavy brown (tan) wire should be connected, as this wire carries the high amperage to the entire electrical system when the generator is charging. There are only three wires on the generator. The large brown on the "A" terminal (fartherest from the engine,) the small blue on the "F" terminal (closest to the engine,) and the small gray on the screw (forward of the others.) At the regulator, the blue should be on the "F" lug (lowest and closest to the engine,) the large brown to the "G" lug (center,) and the large red on the "B" lug (upper and farthest from the engine.) The grey wire is the ground and is attached under one of the screws holding the regulator to the fender well.

That little cylinder, as you mentioned, is a condenser. Its purpose is to reduce electrical noise in the radio. I'm not sure that you have that hooked up correctly. I'll need to research it and get back to you. In the meantime leave it off, as it won't hurt anything. The reason I'm not sure about it is that mine is attached to, and wired to, the same screw as the grey wire at the regulator. I have seen some mounted on the generator but I'll have to check how it's hooked up.

Wire everything as I've described and try it out. You may not have done any damage to this point. It's worth a try. Also, don't forget to polarize the system with this or your new regulator. Good luck.....John
Back to top Go down
View user profile
CATBIRD



Posts : 304
Join date : 2008-07-03
Age : 73
Location : Levittown, Pa

PostSubject: Re: Voltage regulator   Thu Jul 12, 2012 11:19 pm

Old Gold.....I just went back and reread the last paragraph of your post. If in fact, you mixed up the terminals when you refreshed the generator, then the wiring as you now have it would be correct. It would not however match the "F and A" stamped on the generator case. This still leaves the blue and brown wires at the regulator on the wrong lugs. These need to be switched in any case. I would strongly recomend that you double check your internal generator wiring and correct it if necessary. If you needed to have the generator tested in the future, being miswired would cause havoc to the results......John
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Old Gold

avatar

Posts : 78
Join date : 2012-03-11
Age : 41
Location : Jekyll Island GA

PostSubject: Re: Voltage regulator   Fri Jul 13, 2012 11:49 pm

I will let you know what happends come tuesday when the new regulator arrives in the mail. thanks
Back to top Go down
View user profile
CATBIRD



Posts : 304
Join date : 2008-07-03
Age : 73
Location : Levittown, Pa

PostSubject: Re: Voltage regulator   Sun Jul 15, 2012 10:24 pm

Old Gold.....You can mount the condenser under the screw for the gray ground wire. The pigtail wire is to be attached to the "A" armature post of the generator and not the "F" field post. That is assuming that you have the generator wired correctly, which by your post, you may not have......John
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Old Gold

avatar

Posts : 78
Join date : 2012-03-11
Age : 41
Location : Jekyll Island GA

PostSubject: Re: Voltage regulator   Wed Jul 25, 2012 10:13 pm

Catbird>

tonight i got back to old gold, I installed the new voltage regulator, rewired all 3 wires that run from the gen to the reg, I polerized the generator, started car , checked to output 13v reved the motor and it climbs up to 16 - 17 volts so i would assume everything is working.

I took the car for its first drive since November and am now having some minor brake issues, pedal is very stiff and very hard to press.


thanks for your help
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Old Gold

avatar

Posts : 78
Join date : 2012-03-11
Age : 41
Location : Jekyll Island GA

PostSubject: Re: Voltage regulator   Sun Oct 28, 2012 9:07 pm

ok more generator woes again!!!!

since my last post things have been fine with the generator / regulator untill last week.

I have an aftermarket battery charge indicator guage under my dash and while driving I noticed the guage drop from about 16 or 17 volts to about 12v. i just thought battery was charged and the regulator had cut the charge to the battery.

I get home and after some meter testing find that the generator is putting out 0 volts, I drive the car over the next few days and drain the brand new battery, generator does not charge battery battery is dead and needs a charge. I google the problem and run all the tests that ppl with more experience than me have wrote about.

so now the generator is out and back on the bench and after looking over the internal wiring of the generator and looking at an online wiring diagram of the inside of the generator i am certain the internal wiring is correct with one question: the (A) terminal from the inside of the generator has no insulator protecting it from the brush and spring bracket thats bolted to the inside of the generator from the outside with a allen set screw. on the inside it has a 2 prong/ fork like open ended tabs and the (A) terminal stud runs right through it and is not insulated from that bracket? is the correct??
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Old Gold

avatar

Posts : 78
Join date : 2012-03-11
Age : 41
Location : Jekyll Island GA

PostSubject: Re: Voltage regulator   Sun Oct 28, 2012 9:11 pm

next question:

when i rebuild the generator for the first time I remember that the magnets on the inside of the housing were magnatized.......now as of yesterday thay are not, they have no magnetic principals at all. why whats goin on here??



the regulator that is in the car was purchased new from ames a few months back
Back to top Go down
View user profile
59vista

avatar

Posts : 297
Join date : 2008-05-23
Age : 43
Location : Denmark

PostSubject: Re: Voltage regulator   Thu Nov 22, 2012 6:36 pm

If everything else is OK you may have a shorted armature - that was the case with my generator. To truely chrck it you need a 'growler', which is a electromechanics tool, and consists of a magnetic coil on a iron core. It is connected to a AC source, and creates a alternating magnetic field.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Growler_(electrical_device)

You then check the magnetic field by holding a thin magnetic blade (e.g. hacksaw blade) next to the other side of the armature. If it viberates the aramature is internally shorted. In case you suspect this i recomend finding an electromechanic to check the armature. I was lucky enough to know someone hwo has a growler - he could not remember how to use it, so i checked some old books and found the procedure - today it just takes a few seconds with wikipedia - nice !

I found a NOS replacement armature on e-bay.

You may have lost the remenance in the field magnets - in case this has happened you need to apply 12 V to the field coil (F terminal) for a few seconds. This may also be a sympthom of a shorted armature (as it was in my case).
Back to top Go down
View user profile
CATBIRD



Posts : 304
Join date : 2008-07-03
Age : 73
Location : Levittown, Pa

PostSubject: Re: Voltage regulator   Wed Nov 28, 2012 1:00 am

Old Gold…..16-17 volts seems to me to be a little high. Most generators only put out about 13 volts at idle, and 14-15 when cruising under load. This is controlled by the regulator and can be adjusted downward. You may have fried the generator or regulator at that much voltage. Check your area for a good auto electrical shop to test and/or rebuild both. Hurry, because the people who know about these, and have the parts, are dying off rapidly……John
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Sponsored content




PostSubject: Re: Voltage regulator   

Back to top Go down
 
Voltage regulator
View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 1 of 1

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
Pontiac-59.com :: Technical :: Electrical-
Jump to: